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Opinion Today: Winners and losers of the first Republican debate

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nytimes.com

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nytdirect@nytimes.com

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Thu, Aug 24, 2023 12:09 PM

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Yes, Trump wasn’t there, but how did everyone else do? | August 24, 2023 the G.O.P. presidentia

Yes, Trump wasn’t there, but how did everyone else do? [View in browser](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP4QpAWh0dHBzOi8vbWVzc2FnaW5nLWN1c3RvbS1uZXdzbGV0dGVycy5ueXRpbWVzLmNvbS90ZW1wbGF0ZS9vYWt2Mj9jYW1wYWlnbl9pZD0zOSZlbWM9ZWRpdF90eV8yMDIzMDgyNCZpbnN0YW5jZV9pZD0xMDA3NjUmbmw9b3Bpbmlvbi10b2RheSZwcm9kdWN0Q29kZT1UWSZyZWdpX2lkPTc3Njc0OTUyJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9MTQyNzkyJnRlPTEmdXJpPW55dCUzQSUyRiUyRm5ld3NsZXR0ZXIlMkZkYzFmMTMzMi05ZjhlLTUyNzctOWQ1NS02ZjJlOTRiNDJjYWMmdXNlcl9pZD1hYTQ5MWVmN2YxZDk2NGU0OTc5ZmI3ODRlNzRlMDFkN1cDbnl0Qgpk24tH52SeKHEAUht0cmlzdHJhbWJhbGR3aW45MEBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAM~)|[nytimes.com](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0SxaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTM5JmVtYz1lZGl0X3R5XzIwMjMwODI0Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTEwMDc2NSZubD1vcGluaW9uLXRvZGF5JnJlZ2lfaWQ9Nzc2NzQ5NTImc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xNDI3OTImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPWFhNDkxZWY3ZjFkOTY0ZTQ5NzlmYjc4NGU3NGUwMWQ3VwNueXRCCmTbi0fnZJ4ocQBSG3RyaXN0cmFtYmFsZHdpbjkwQGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAw~~)[Continue reading the main story](#a11y-skip-ad-marquee) [Marquee Ad](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0SYaHR0cHM6Ly9saXZlaW50ZW50Lm5ld3lvcmt0aW1lc2luZm8uY29tL2NsaWNrP3M9MTYyMTM5JmxpPVRZJm09YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDcmcD1UWV8yMDIzMDgyNCZ0ZT0xJm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjRXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [Read more from Opinion](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TAaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vc2VjdGlvbi9vcGluaW9uP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTM5JmVtYz1lZGl0X3R5XzIwMjMwODI0Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTEwMDc2NSZubD1vcGluaW9uLXRvZGF5JnJlZ2lfaWQ9Nzc2NzQ5NTImc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xNDI3OTImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPWFhNDkxZWY3ZjFkOTY0ZTQ5NzlmYjc4NGU3NGUwMWQ3VwNueXRCCmTbi0fnZJ4ocQBSG3RyaXN0cmFtYmFsZHdpbjkwQGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAw~~) August 24, 2023 [Author Headshot] By John Guida Senior Staff Editor, Opinion Donald Trump has [dominated](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP4QXAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm55dGltZXMuY29tLzIwMjMvMDgvMjEvdXMvcG9saXRpY3MvdHJ1bXAtcG9sbC1yYXRpbmcuaHRtbD9hY3Rpb249Y2xpY2smY2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm1vZHVsZT1XZWxsJm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcGd0eXBlPUhvbWVwYWdlJnJlZ2lfaWQ9Nzc2NzQ5NTImc2VjdGlvbj1VUytOZXdzJnNlZ21lbnRfaWQ9MTQyNzkyJnRlPTEmdXNlcl9pZD1hYTQ5MWVmN2YxZDk2NGU0OTc5ZmI3ODRlNzRlMDFkN1cDbnl0Qgpk24tH52SeKHEAUht0cmlzdHJhbWJhbGR3aW45MEBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAM~) the G.O.P. presidential primary by most [traditional standards](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TmaHR0cHM6Ly9wcm9qZWN0cy5maXZldGhpcnR5ZWlnaHQuY29tL3BvbGxzL3ByZXNpZGVudC1wcmltYXJ5LXIvMjAyNC9uYXRpb25hbC8_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) — and, after four indictments and 91 felony counts, by many nontraditional standards, too. But on a stage in Milwaukee last night, eight Republican candidates not named Trump tried to change the primary’s dynamic, or at least grab a glimmer of a chance to break the former president’s dominance. How to cover a debate that lacked its leading man? As Times Opinion has done for several cycles now, [we kept score](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0T1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUvMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL3JlcHVibGljYW4tZGViYXRlLXdpbm5lcnMtbG9zZXJzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD), in a manner of speaking. And our panel of writers picked Nikki Haley as the winner. Bret Stephens called her “the star of the evening,” while David French wrote: “If there’s any life left in the old G.O.P., Haley gave it hope.” Mike Pence ranked second, giving a performance that Michelle Goldberg called “unexpectedly fiery!” Chris Christie and Ron DeSantis were in the middle of the pack — of the latter, Ross Douthat wrote, “he isn’t the front-runner, and he desperately needs more deftness and finesse.” Bret Stephens was more blunt: “Bye, Ron,” he said. Vivek Ramaswamy was the most divisive candidate, with scores all over the place. As Ross Douthat put it, his was “a love-it-or-hate-it performance.” Many of the candidates weren’t nearly as memorable — people like Tim Scott, whose performance Michelle Goldberg called simply, “meh.” In [his review of the debate](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TpaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL3JlcHVibGljYW4tZGViYXRlLXRydW1wLWRlc2FudGlzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD), Frank Bruni did not see a lot of courage on the stage. “The party is not turning away from Trump,” he wrote, “and that was the moral of an event at which Trump was physically absent but spiritually present.” “Is DeSantis really trying all that hard? Apart from Christie, are any of them? Like their ethically rotten party, they’re hostage to a serially indicted huckster and seem to be waiting for some twist of fate or act of magic to make it all better,” he wrote. Today, all eyes will surely turn to Trump again, considering his plan to turn himself in at the Atlanta jail where defendants are being booked in the Fulton County case. No doubt at least some of the debaters in Milwaukee thought that their performance might break, or at least loosen, Trump’s cycle of dominance. But the impressions of our panelists seem to offer them very little hope that they succeeded. Read our coverage of the debate: [Article Image](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0T1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUvMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL3JlcHVibGljYW4tZGViYXRlLXdpbm5lcnMtbG9zZXJzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [Winners and Losers of the First Republican Debate What our columnists and contributors thought about the debate.](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0T1aHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vaW50ZXJhY3RpdmUvMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL3JlcHVibGljYW4tZGViYXRlLXdpbm5lcnMtbG9zZXJzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [[Article Image] Illustration by The New York Times; photograph by Brendan Smialowski/Getty Images](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TpaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL3JlcHVibGljYW4tZGViYXRlLXRydW1wLWRlc2FudGlzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [FRANK BRUNI At the Republican Debate, an Infuriating Display of Moral Cowardice The candidates refused to tell the full truth about Trump’s lies. By Frank Bruni](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TpaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL3JlcHVibGljYW4tZGViYXRlLXRydW1wLWRlc2FudGlzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [[Article Image] Damon Winter/The New York Times](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TtaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL2Rlc2FudGlzLXJhbWFzd2FteS1yZXB1YmxpY2FuLWRlYmF0ZS5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTM5JmVtYz1lZGl0X3R5XzIwMjMwODI0Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTEwMDc2NSZubD1vcGluaW9uLXRvZGF5JnJlZ2lfaWQ9Nzc2NzQ5NTImc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xNDI3OTImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPWFhNDkxZWY3ZjFkOTY0ZTQ5NzlmYjc4NGU3NGUwMWQ3VwNueXRCCmTbi0fnZJ4ocQBSG3RyaXN0cmFtYmFsZHdpbjkwQGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAw~~) [CHARLES M. BLOW DeSantis Shrank in Ramaswamy’s Shadow Wednesday’s debate delivered its own point to DeSantis: His star is setting while another rises. By Charles M. Blow](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TtaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yNC9vcGluaW9uL2Rlc2FudGlzLXJhbWFzd2FteS1yZXB1YmxpY2FuLWRlYmF0ZS5odG1sP2NhbXBhaWduX2lkPTM5JmVtYz1lZGl0X3R5XzIwMjMwODI0Jmluc3RhbmNlX2lkPTEwMDc2NSZubD1vcGluaW9uLXRvZGF5JnJlZ2lfaWQ9Nzc2NzQ5NTImc2VnbWVudF9pZD0xNDI3OTImdGU9MSZ1c2VyX2lkPWFhNDkxZWY3ZjFkOTY0ZTQ5NzlmYjc4NGU3NGUwMWQ3VwNueXRCCmTbi0fnZJ4ocQBSG3RyaXN0cmFtYmFsZHdpbjkwQGdtYWlsLmNvbVgEAAAAAw~~) [Continue reading the main story](#a11y-skip-universal-0) ADVERTISEMENT [Ad](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0SXaHR0cHM6Ly9saXZlaW50ZW50Lm5ld3lvcmt0aW1lc2luZm8uY29tL2NsaWNrP3M9NTk3ODUmbGk9VFkmbT1hYTQ5MWVmN2YxZDk2NGU0OTc5ZmI3ODRlNzRlMDFkNyZwPVRZXzIwMjMwODI0JnRlPTEmbmw9b3Bpbmlvbi10b2RheSZlbWM9ZWRpdF90eV8yMDIzMDgyNFcDbnl0Qgpk24tH52SeKHEAUht0cmlzdHJhbWJhbGR3aW45MEBnbWFpbC5jb21YBAAAAAM~) Here’s what we’re focusing on today: Editors’ Picks [SERGE SCHMEMANN What Prigozhin Did in Putin’s Russia Was the Ultimate Betrayal His fate may have already been sealed. 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By Peter Coy](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TmaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yMy9vcGluaW9uL2NsaW1hdGUtY2hhbmdlLWNhcmJvbi1vZmZzZXRzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [Article Image](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TmaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yMy9vcGluaW9uL2NsaW1hdGUtY2hhbmdlLWNhcmJvbi1vZmZzZXRzLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [DAVID WALLACE-WELLS What Can Replace China as a Global Economic Engine? Much of the world’s economic fate hangs on the speed and scale of the green transition. By David Wallace-Wells](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP4QGAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm55dGltZXMuY29tLzIwMjMvMDgvMjMvb3Bpbmlvbi9jb2x1bW5pc3RzL3doYXQtY2FuLXJlcGxhY2UtY2hpbmEtYXMtYS1nbG9iYWwtZWNvbm9taWMtZW5naW5lLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [Article Image](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP4QGAWh0dHBzOi8vd3d3Lm55dGltZXMuY29tLzIwMjMvMDgvMjMvb3Bpbmlvbi9jb2x1bW5pc3RzL3doYXQtY2FuLXJlcGxhY2UtY2hpbmEtYXMtYS1nbG9iYWwtZWNvbm9taWMtZW5naW5lLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [LETTERS Fixing America’s Health Care System Readers add their suggestions to those offered by Nicholas Kristof. Also: Trump’s trial dates and odds of conviction; Barbie and Ken.](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TsaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yMy9vcGluaW9uL2xldHRlcnMvZml4aW5nLWFtZXJpY2FuLWhlYWx0aC1jYXJlLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [Article Image](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0TsaHR0cHM6Ly93d3cubnl0aW1lcy5jb20vMjAyMy8wOC8yMy9vcGluaW9uL2xldHRlcnMvZml4aW5nLWFtZXJpY2FuLWhlYWx0aC1jYXJlLmh0bWw_Y2FtcGFpZ25faWQ9MzkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjQmaW5zdGFuY2VfaWQ9MTAwNzY1Jm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmcmVnaV9pZD03NzY3NDk1MiZzZWdtZW50X2lkPTE0Mjc5MiZ0ZT0xJnVzZXJfaWQ9YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDdXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) [Continue reading the main story](#a11y-skip-universal-1) ADVERTISEMENT [Ad](~/AAAAAQA~/RgRmycyLP0SYaHR0cHM6Ly9saXZlaW50ZW50Lm5ld3lvcmt0aW1lc2luZm8uY29tL2NsaWNrP3M9MjAxODEyJmxpPVRZJm09YWE0OTFlZjdmMWQ5NjRlNDk3OWZiNzg0ZTc0ZTAxZDcmcD1UWV8yMDIzMDgyNCZ0ZT0xJm5sPW9waW5pb24tdG9kYXkmZW1jPWVkaXRfdHlfMjAyMzA4MjRXA255dEIKZNuLR-dknihxAFIbdHJpc3RyYW1iYWxkd2luOTBAZ21haWwuY29tWAQAAAAD) Subscribe Today New York Times Opinion curates a wide range of views, inviting rich discussion and debate that help readers analyze the world. 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